Welcome!
Rules, FAQ, and Getting Started Guide
Welcome to Raw Fed & Nerdy!
We are happy to have you. Please notice that we utilize nutrient requirements and not ratios alone. Please read this entire page before commenting and posting
Raw Fed & Nerdy is a group for cooked and raw feline and canine diets- the discussion of other animals is welcome. RFN promotes the use of nutritional requirements when discussing diets. This means that you can use ratios like PMR- but within the context of also auditing those diets with nutrient requirements. We understand that this group may seem extreme and detailed- members currently in the group appreciate the attention to detail and the use of nutrient requirements. Posts complaining about the detail and science will be removed. These posts do not add to the content and discourse within the group.
Please read through this page and click on the Full Course or Short Guide buttons at the end.
Raw Fed & Nerdy believes in the power of fresh food diets and being mindfully healthy. The group is ran by knowledgeable admins- read more about them here.
Please have a read through our rules and then continue to the getting started guide at the end. Please do scan the FAQ section to see if you have any of these already answered questions.
The official RFN raw feeding course is found here (works for cooked diets, too!)
BE EXCELLENT TO EACH OTHER AND NERD ON!
Obvious one. No bullying. Report posts that you think are bullying. Always. Be kind to one another. Disagreements are not attacks. There are plenty of disagreements- but we can still be peaceful.
DO NOT BE A BUTTHEAD. MOST IMPORTANT RULE!
(NEW!) FURTHER CONSTRUCTIVE DIALOGUE & INTERACTIONS ONLY
If a comment is way off base- REPORT IT. Do not engage in negative dialogue. See rule above- you can disagree without being unpleasant. Laugh reacting etc. inappropriately and similar behavior will not be tolerated. Disagreeing with individuals appropriately is an art. Before doing ANY interaction ask
1) Is it logical?
2) Does it promote learning and education?
3) Is this interaction negatively charged with emotions? If so, how can I express my opinion away from emotional charge? (Applicable to emotions that are not from positive feelings).
Use your head with this one- laughing at somebody in a cynical way is different than laughing at something that is positive and funny. Angry reacting at somebody in the right context can be okay, too. In the wrong context, angry reacting can go against the goal of constructive dialogue and interactions.
It is okay to be passionate! We just ask that the overarching goal be kept in mind. Disagreements are not easy and there is a right and wrong way to conduct dialogue and interactions.
NO DELETING YOUR POST (WITHOUT PERMISSION)
There are people of all backgrounds commenting. Some are generous in pouring our their advice and sources. Deleting your post is disrespectful to all the contributors and shows a disregard to other people’s time. If you post a thread that you are no longer comfortable having up, please reach out to Savannah or the other admins. We know first hand how uncomfortable social media can be. You may request your post to be removed- but doing so on your own is grounds for removal. We respect people’s emotional well-being, but also everybody who creates quality comments and discussions.
In the event we remove a thread that we deem to be useful for others, the thread likely will be archived with comments copied and your profile + name removed so that the content is still searchable in the group. Thank you for understanding. Think critically before posting.
ONLY JOIN IF YOU ARE GENUINELY INTERESTED
Not really a rule…but seriously- if you think nutritional requirements are ridiculous, not needed, and ratios alone are fine and you are not open to learning more, and message members and/or post comments saying to forgo nutrient requirements, then please leave or do not join. There are 93430 raw feeding groups that DON’T use nutritional standards that support you.
NO PROMOTION OF SCIENCE-LESS POP-CULTURE INCLUDING 80/10/10 MEMES
This is a science based group. Please refrain from sharing pop-culture sources. Sources should be backed with verifiable proof. This group is a safe haven for those who do not wish to see that type of content.
NO ADVERTISING
Please no advertising. Definitely feel free to message admins for exceptions.
Nutritionists, vets, etc. all are more than welcome.
NO SCREENSHOT SHARING
New rule. We hate that we have to add it, but if you feel the need to make fun of members via snapshots, you shouldn’t join in the first place. This is Raw Fed and NERDY afterall. If you have feedback for the group, see the next rule.
You will be banned for breaking this rule- mainly because you broke rule number 1: Do not be a butthead.
ABSOLUTELY NO RECOMMENDING 80/10/10 ALONE: ESPECIALLY PUPPIES
If you continuously recommend 80/10/10 and no nutrient requirements- ESPECIALLY to puppy owners, you will be warned first (new members we recommend to check out the learning units first. Many people have great intentions!)
However, if you continue to neglect the group rules, the next step is being muted and then removed.
There are 38947 different raw groups that can teach you to religiously use ratios. This is not the place and we do not want this content here. Members have expressed this as well. We will be strict on this.
Ratio diets again are welcome if they are accompanied by nutrient audits.
NO POSTING COPYRIGHTED CONTENT- INCLUDING FORMULATIONS BY OTHER PROFESSIONALS
Please do not post copyrighted content. This includes formulations by other professionals. We do not make alternations to recipes completed by other professionals unless explcitely allowed by the nutritionist.
DO POST CORRECTLY
PROVIDE CRITICISM OF THE GROUP TO THE ADMINS FIRST
If you have joined the group and feel the need to complain about this group in other groups- we ask that you complain away- TO THE ADMINS. How else can we make this group and webpage better without your input? It is extraordinarily valuable!
It is a total bummer to see people with critique share in other groups as a complain rather than trying to improve RFN through their experience. Thank you for understanding and making the group a better place.
SMART THINKING
Credible sources live here. Anecdotal support, even if it means Joe down the street (who happens to know a lot about dogs), is hardly ever appropriate for dietary claims. I am referring to the ever so popular “Well Joe has been raising healthy puppies for 30 years”. I am NOT talking about “I found that my dog stopped eating rocks after incorporating x in to their diet.” That stuff is cool.
THE ADMIN BADGE
The primary role of admins is to keep things under control and on topic. No blocking admins.
RANT AWAY ON WEEKENDS
Just don’t be a butthead.
FEEDING WHOLE FRESH FOODS IS WAY BETTER THAN SUPPLEMENTS. WHY ARE YOU PUSHING SUPPLEMENTS
We would rather people feed whole fresh foods! We just prefer people to supplement when it is needed. Read this here.
THIS GROUP ONLY EXISTS TO POINT BUSINESS TO THE ADMINS
Hey now- did you read through all the FREE resouces on the website? We make every effort to provide DIYers all the resources they need to take their raw feeding to the next level. Yes the admins often have their own consulting businesses. When members specifically ask for professional services we provide that link. However, it is never advertised unless very specific circumstances arise. Also, you will notice that we link to professionals who are not on the admin team and some are not even in the group.
WHAT ABOUT FEDIAF?
Here you are! And also please read this if it interests you.
WHY USE NUTRIENT REQUIREMENTS- WHY THIS NEW WAY OF RAW FEEDING
It is NOT a new thing and precedes 80/10/10. This is a false claim.
Because it is great to use fresh food! Let’s take it to the next step and make sure the essentials are there, discuss ingredient choice, disucss unique requirements…
YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT INGREDIENTS AND JUST WANT YOUR BELOVED PDD OR EXCEL
Actually, no. Digestion, nutrient source (ingredients), non-nutrient requirement nutrients etc. are all highly valued here. Ginger might meet manganese, but it isn’t the best source. Please read through the content on the website before making this claim. Especially the Full Course! Also read this!
HELLO NEW TO THE GROUP AND I BOUGHT PDD AND AM FREAKING OUT IT IS SO HARD ABOUT TO QUIT
First of all- welcome.
Secondly, have you visited the Full Course? The Raw Feeding Short Guide? What about the PDD resources page on this website? What about the nutrient flashcard pages on this website?
These are ALL required before trying your hand at PDD or Cronometer etc.
Nutrient requirements as numbers is only one small part of nutrient science. We should know which nutrients are needed, which ones are conditionally needed (think Vitamin K)
Yes to all of the above? Please specifically lay out what you are having issues with. We would be happy to help!
WHERE ARE THE NRC VALUES?
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RATIO DIETS, INGREDIENTS, AND NUTRIENT REQUIREMENTS
Nutrient requirements are fulfilled using ingredients.
Ratio diets just use ingredients, but can leave on nutrients.
For example, egg has vitamin D, but feeding an egg twice a week will not meet your dog’s vitamin D nutrient requirements.
HELLO I JUST JOINED, THIS IS ALL WAY TOO HARD
Please do not make an assessment after just joining. We do not expect members to know things in 24 hours…or a week. This is a learning journey, not a weekend project. Please take things one step at a time by visiting the raw feeding road map page and the learning units.
WHY DON'T YOU RECOMMEND 80/10/10
Because those diets are so easily deficient in so much, yes even with variety and an egg and sardines twice a week.
This is even worse for growth diets. We have seen in the last 6 months (today is August 14, 2018)
Reproductive Distrubances (zinc)
Growth issues (calcium for one, vitamin D for another)
Vitamin E related issues
Manganese Related Issues
Eye Damage
Skin Issues (fatty acids)
Also, please remember where you are NRC NUTRITIONAL science. So we use just that- nutrient science.
YOU CAN JUST BALANCE OVER TIME THOUGH
Balance what over time? We balance over time! We balance some minerals over time, for example. However, it is important to remember that not every nutrient can be balanced over time for optimal health. EX: Water soluble vitamins. Fat soluble can be hard because it could mean feeding a high fat meal (which adversely affects some dogs).
This is why we understand that numbers are only PART of the picture. Study nutrient storage, interactions, forms, etc.
DO I NEED PET DIET DESIGNER TO MAKE A BALANCED RECIPE
No.
HELP PET DIET DESIGNER MAKES ALL MY INGREDIENTS 100 GRAMS
Type the new value in and press “enter.” Do not click away. It is silly, we know.
WOLVES DO NOT HAVE CALCULATORS
Wolves also die of starvation frequently. Wolves in captivity live longer than in the wild and benefit from modern science. Wolves in the wild do not live as long as dogs.
This is a commonly used “excuse” to avoid nutrient requirements.
We need to be careful to to use fallicious reasoning when approaching science. Appeal to nature is dangerous here.
Also- if one’s philosophy is “dogs don’t do that in the wild,” then we should be consistent with that philosophy. Wolves also don’t get adequate vet care, housing, meals placed in front of them daily, or kefir…or coconut oil..or…raw goats milk…or…
Not to say that studying natural behavior is not useful- we just need to approach the subject with critical thinking.
JOE DOWN THE STREET- WHO HAPPENS TO KNOW A LOT ABOUT DOGS, HAS BEEN BREEDING HEALTHY PUPPIES FOR 30 YEARS AND HE JUST ADDS FISH AND EGGS 2X A WEEK AND DOES 80/10/10
We are not trying to discredit experience. It is always great that a dog is healthy. But it is not accurate to discredit readily available nutritional information because of Joe. It is far safer to recognize the nutritional needs of your pet rather than adopt somebody else’s. Remember this when you present advice. Joe’s method may have worked for him, but caused reproductive failure in another dog.
I BALANCE MY OWN FOOD OVER TIME
Dogs and cats live shorter lives and we have less time to get their nutrient intake right.
Also, for the United States- for example, the majority of Americans have a nutritionally responsive condition.
This is a poor comparison.
HELP- PDD DOES NOT HAVE BONE INFORMATION
Pet Diet Designer (not Pet Diet 365) does not have bone information. Please visit the files for bone information! We have it in a spreadsheet!
COOKING FOOD RUINS ALL THE NUTRIENTS
Actually, cooked food is great and we can use the nutrient values of cooked food and account for the losses. Not all dogs do best on raw.
I AM NOT SMART ENOUGH TO DO THIS
LIES! Stop that. You are plenty capable and many people without any sort of degree do this.