ABOUT RAW FED AND NERDY FACEBOOK GROUP
Raw Fed & Nerdy is for nutrition and health geeks who are passionate about canine and feline health (and whatever companion animal). Despite the name, cooked diets are welcome here as we understand that not all companion animals can consume raw foods nor can all humans be around raw food to the extent needed to fully raw feed.
This is a NUTRITION based group. Feed whatever style you wish- but we talk about nutrients which is far more specific than say, PMR or BARF.
We use nutrient requirements of cats and dogs- not ingredient requirements (5% liver, 10% bone etc).
Ratio diets are welcome- but not on an “as is” basis. 80/10/10 IS NEVER optimal on its own. Ratio diets should be audited using nutrient requirements. Ratios are an okay guidelines to start with (ex: Keeping heart at moderate levels)- but all of these issues can be addressed by examining each ingredient. Too much bone will still cause issues with excretion- but we will also see that it can cause issues with other nutrients. A little insight found here why we use nutrient requirements.
Therefore, we recognize both the importance of nutrient requirements AND ingredient selection.
RAW FED AND NERDY CLOSES POSTING FRIDAY EVENING TO SATURDAY EVENING. THANK YOU FOR GIVING THE ADMINS A BREAK. COMMENTS REMAIN OPEN.
PLEASE UTILIZE THE RAW FEEDING ROAD MAP PAGE ON THIS WEBSITE.
BE EXCELLENT TO EACH OTHER AND NERD ON!
Obvious one. No bullying. Report posts that you think are bullying. Always. Be kind to one another. Disagreements are not attacks. There are plenty of disagreements- but we can still be peaceful.
DO NOT BE A BUTTHEAD. MOST IMPORTANT RULE!
NO DELETING YOUR POST (WITHOUT PERMISSION)
There are people of all backgrounds commenting. Some are generous in pouring our their advice and sources. Deleting your post is disrespectful to all the contributors and shows a disregard to other people’s time. If you post a thread that you are no longer comfortable having up, please reach out to Savannah or the other admins. We know first hand how uncomfortable social media can be. You may request your post to be removed- but doing so on your own is grounds for removal. We respect people’s emotional well-being, but also everybody who creates quality comments and discussions.
In the event we remove a thread that we deem to be useful for others, the thread likely will be archived with comments copied and your profile + name removed so that the content is still searchable in the group. Thank you for understanding. Think critically before posting.
ONLY JOIN IF YOU ARE GENUINELY INTERESTED
Not really a rule…but seriously- if you think nutritional requirements are ridiculous, not needed, and ratios are fine and you are not open to learning more, and message members and/or post comments saying to forgo nutrient requirements, then please leave or do not join. There are 93430 raw feeding groups that DONT use nutritional standards that support you.
NO PROMOTION OF SCIENCE-LESS POP-CULTURE INCLUDING 80/10/10 MEMES
This is a science based group. Please refrain from sharing pop-culture sources. Sources should be backed with verifiable proof. This group is a safe haven for those who do not wish to see that type of content.
Please no advertising. Again, this group has no allegiance so while it is encouraged to share (credible) blogs, this is not the place to push products etc. Definitely feel free to message admins for exceptions.
Nutritionists, vets, etc. all are more than welcome.
NO SCREENSHOT SHARING
New rule. We hate that we have to add it, but if you feel the need to make fun of members via snapshots, you shouldn’t join in the first place. This is Raw Fed and NERDY afterall. If you have feedback for the group, see the next rule.
You will be banned for breaking this rule- mainly because you broke rule number 1: Do not be a butthead.
ABSOLUTELY NO RECOMMENDING 80/10/10 ALONE: ESPECIALLY PUPPIES
If you continuously recommend 80/10/10 and no nutrient requirements- ESPECIALLY to puppy owners, you will be warned first (new members we recommend to check out the learning units first. Many people have great intentions!)
However, if you continue to neglect the group rules, the next step is being muted and then removed.
There are 38947 different raw groups that can teach you to religiously use ratios. This is not the place and we do not want this content here. Members have expressed this as well. We will be strict on this.
Ratio diets again are welcome if they are accompanied by nutrient audits.
DO POST CORRECTLY
When asking for feedback on a recipe or commercial food, follow the directions in this post so that your post does not get lost due to inadequate information. The less time people have to spend asking for information, the more feedback you will receive.
PROVIDE CRITICISM OF THE GROUP TO THE ADMINS FIRST
If you have joined the group and feel the need to complain about this group in other groups- we ask that you complain away- TO THE ADMINS. How else can we make this group and webpage better without your input? It is extraordinarily valuable!
It is a total bummer to see people with critique share in other groups as a complain rather than trying to improve RFN through their experience. Thank you for understanding and making the group a better place.
BRING YOUR BRAIN
Bring your brain. Credible sources live here. Anecdotal support, even if it means Joe down the street (who happens to know a lot about dogs), is hardly ever appropriate for dietary claims. I am referring to the ever so popular “Well Joe has been raising healthy puppies for 30 years”. I am NOT talking about “I found that my dog stopped eating rocks after incorporating x in to their diet.” That stuff is cool.
THE ADMIN BADGE
The primary role of admins is to keep things under control and on topic. No blocking admins.
RANT AWAY ON WEEKENDS
Just don’t be a butthead.
WHERE DO I GO ONCE I JOIN?
FEEDING WHOLE FRESH FOODS IS WAY BETTER THAN SUPPLEMENTS. WHY ARE YOU PUSHING SUPPLEMENTS
We would rather people feed whole fresh foods! We just prefer people to supplement when it is needed.
WHAT ABOUT FEDIAF?
WHY USE NUTRIENT REQUIREMENTS- WHY THIS NEW WAY OF RAW FEEDING
It is NOT a new thing as precedes 80/10/10. This is a false claim.
YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT INGREDIENTS AND JUST WANT YOUR BELOVED PDD OR EXCEL
Actually, no. Digestion, nutrient source (ingredients), non-nutrient requirement nutrients etc. are all highly valued here. Ginger might meet manganese, but it isn’t the best source.
HELLO NEW TO THE GROUP AND I BOUGHT PDD AND AM FREAKING OUT IT IS SO HARD ABOUT TO QUIT
First of all- welcome.
Secondly, have you visited the learning units? The raw feeding road map page? What about the PDD resources page on this website? What about the nutrient flashcard pages on this website?
These are ALL required before trying your hand at PDD or Cronometer etc.
Nutrient requirements as numbers is only one small part of nutrient science. We should know which nutrients are needed, which ones are conditionally needed (think Vitamin K)
Yes to all of the above? Please specifically lay out what you are having issues with. We would be happy to help!
WHERE ARE THE NRC VALUES?
In the group files, on the road map page, in the learning units. Please visit those places and do not dive in to the standards. There is much more than just using standards.
A lot of people do this and try to feed 5 pounds of kale to meet Vitamin K because they didn’t learn about the nutrients first.
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RATIO DIETS, INGREDIENTS, AND NUTRIENT REQUIREMENTS
Nutrient requirements are fulfilled using ingredients.
Ratio diets just use ingredients, but can leave on nutrients.
For example, egg has vitamin D, but feeding an egg twice a week will not meet your dog’s vitamin D nutrient requirements.
HELLO I JUST JOINED, THIS IS ALL WAY TOO HARD
Please do not make an assessment after just joining. We do not expect members to know things in 24 hours…or a week. This is a learning journey, not a weekend project. Please take things one step at a time by visiting the raw feeding road map page and the learning units.
WHY DON'T YOU RECOMMEND 80/10/10
Because those diets are so easily deficient in so much, yes even with variety and an egg and sardines twice a week.
This is even worse for growth diets. We have seen in the last 6 months (today is August 14, 2018)
Reproductive Distrubances (zinc)
Growth issues (calcium for one, vitamin D for another)
Vitamin E related issues
Manganese Related Issues
Skin Issues (fatty acids)
Also, please remember where you are NRC NUTRITIONAL science. So we use just that- nutrient science.
YOU CAN JUST BALANCE OVER TIME THOUGH
Balance what over time? We balance over time! We balance some minerals over time, for example. However, it is important to remember that not every nutrient can be balanced over time for optimal health. EX: Water soluble vitamins. Fat soluble can be hard because it could mean feeding a high fat meal (which adversely affects some dogs).
This is why we understand that numbers are only PART of the picture. Study nutrient storage, interactions, forms, etc.
DO I NEED PET DIET DESIGNER TO MAKE A BALANCED RECIPE
HELP PET DIET DESIGNER MAKES ALL MY INGREDIENTS 100 GRAMS
Type the new value in and press “enter.” Do not click away. It is silly, we know.
WOLVES DO NOT HAVE CALCULATORS
Wolves also die of starvation frequently. Wolves in captivity live longer than in the wild and benefit from modern science. Wolves in the wild do not live as long as dogs.
This is a commonly used “excuse” to avoid nutrient requirements.
We need to be careful to to use fallicious reasoning when approaching science. Appeal to nature is dangerous here.
Also- if one’s philosophy is “dogs don’t do that in the wild,” then we should be consistent with that philosophy. Wolves also don’t get adequate vet care, housing, meals placed in front of them daily, or kefir…or coconut oil..or…raw goats milk…or…
Not to say that studying natural behavior is not useful- we just need to approach the subject with critical thinking.
JOE DOWN THE STREET- WHO HAPPENS TO KNOW A LOT ABOUT DOGS, HAS BEEN BREEDING HEALTHY PUPPIES FOR 30 YEARS AND HE JUST ADDS FISH AND EGGS 2X A WEEK AND DOES 80/10/10
We are not trying to discredit experience. It is always great that a dog is healthy. But it is not accurate to discredit readily available nutritional information because of Joe. It is far safer to recognize the nutritional needs of your pet rather than adopt somebody else’s. Remember this when you present advice. Joe’s method may have worked for him, but caused reproductive failure in another dog.
I BALANCE MY OWN FOOD OVER TIME
Dogs and cats live shorter lives and we have less time to get their nutrient intake right.
Also, for the United States- for example, the majority of Americans have a nutritionally responsive condition.
This is a poor comparison.
HELP- PDD DOES NOT HAVE BONE INFORMATION
Pet Diet Designer (not Pet Diet 365) does not have bone information. But please visit the raw feeding road map trouble shooting section.
COOKING FOOD RUINS ALL THE NUTRIENTS
Actually, cooked food is great and we can use the nutrient values of cooked food and account for the losses. Not all dogs do best on raw.
I AM NOT SMART ENOUGH TO DO THIS
LIES! Stop that. You are plenty capable and many people without any sort of degree do this.
This area used to address concerns and make announcements within the group.
“Raw Fed and Nerdy does not believe in balance over time and variety”
This is incorrect- nutrients that can be balanced over time can be just that- balanced over time. Nutrients that need to be supplied daily (like water soluble), should be supplied daily. Variety of ingredients is much encouraged where possible by the rotation of meal plans.
Admins Offer Meal Plans
This group is not where admins offer meal plans. Sometimes people ask and members and admins will tag individuals. Even then, 101 opportunities are given to make possible for the owner to balance on their own. Savannah provides free one-on-one sessions to help owners. Every effort is made in most cases (therapeutic is different) to allow the pet owner to formulate on their owns. Admins do not go out of their way to post their services unless asked. Many admin services came after RFN.
You ONLY support NRC Method
Incorrect. NRC was added to our name originally to help people find a group utilizing NRC with raw feeding (though cooked is fine here too). A name change is coming soon to reflect that RFN provides more than one way to feed- with the bottom line being
You HAVE to use Cronometer or PDD.
Again, incorrect. Members tend to enjoy PDD and
Thank you! Hope everybody has a wonderful weekend!