Rules, FAQ, and Getting Started Guide
Welcome to Raw Fed & Nerdy!
We close posting for the whole group on weekends- starting Friday Evening
We are happy to have you. Please notice that we utilize nutrient requirements and not ratios alone. Please read this entire page before commenting and posting
Raw Fed & Nerdy is a group for cooked and raw feline and canine diets- the discussion of other animals is welcome. RFN promotes the use of nutritional requirements when discussing diets. This means that you can use ratios like PMR- but within the context of also auditing those diets with nutrient requirements. We understand that this group may seem extreme and detailed- members currently in the group appreciate the attention to detail and the use of nutrient requirements. Posts complaining about the detail and science will be removed. These posts do not add to the content and discourse within the group.
Please read through this page and click on the Full Course or Short Guide buttons at the end.
Raw Fed & Nerdy believes in the power of fresh food diets and being mindfully healthy. The group is ran by knowledgeable admins- read more about them here.
Please have a read through our rules and then continue to the getting started guide at the end. Please do scan the FAQ section to see if you have any of these already answered questions.
The official RFN raw feeding course is found here (works for cooked diets, too!)
BE EXCELLENT TO EACH OTHER AND NERD ON!
Obvious one. No bullying. Report posts that you think are bullying. Always. Be kind to one another. Disagreements are not attacks. There are plenty of disagreements- but we can still be peaceful.
DO NOT BE A BUTTHEAD. MOST IMPORTANT RULE!
(NEW!) FURTHER CONSTRUCTIVE DIALOGUE & INTERACTIONS ONLY
If a comment is way off base- REPORT IT. Do not engage in negative dialogue. See rule above- you can disagree without being unpleasant. Laugh reacting etc. inappropriately and similar behavior will not be tolerated. Disagreeing with individuals appropriately is an art. Before doing ANY interaction ask
1) Is it logical?
2) Does it promote learning and education?
3) Is this interaction negatively charged with emotions? If so, how can I express my opinion away from emotional charge? (Applicable to emotions that are not from positive feelings).
Use your head with this one- laughing at somebody in a cynical way is different than laughing at something that is positive and funny. Angry reacting at somebody in the right context can be okay, too. In the wrong context, angry reacting can go against the goal of constructive dialogue and interactions.
It is okay to be passionate! We just ask that the overarching goal be kept in mind. Disagreements are not easy and there is a right and wrong way to conduct dialogue and interactions.
NO DELETING YOUR POST OR COMMENT (WITHOUT PERMISSION)
There are people of all backgrounds commenting. Some are generous in pouring our their advice and sources. Deleting your post is disrespectful to all the contributors and shows a disregard to other people’s time. If you post a thread that you are no longer comfortable having up, please reach out to Savannah or the other admins. We know first hand how uncomfortable social media can be. You may request your post to be removed- but doing so on your own is grounds for removal. We respect people’s emotional well-being, but also everybody who creates quality comments and discussions.
In the event we remove a thread that we deem to be useful for others, the thread likely will be archived with comments copied and your profile + name removed so that the content is still searchable in the group. Thank you for understanding. Think critically before posting.
ONLY JOIN IF YOU ARE GENUINELY INTERESTED
Not really a rule…but seriously- if you think nutritional requirements are ridiculous, not needed, and ratios alone are fine and you are not open to learning more, and message members and/or post comments saying to forgo nutrient requirements, then please leave or do not join. There are 93430 raw feeding groups that DON’T use nutritional standards that support you.
NO PROMOTION OF SCIENCE-LESS POP-CULTURE INCLUDING 80/10/10 MEMES
This is a science based group. Please refrain from sharing pop-culture sources. Sources should be backed with verifiable proof. This group is a safe haven for those who do not wish to see that type of content.
Please no advertising. Definitely feel free to message admins for exceptions.
Nutritionists, vets, etc. all are more than welcome.
NO SCREENSHOT SHARING
New rule. We hate that we have to add it, but if you feel the need to make fun of members via snapshots, you shouldn’t join in the first place. This is Raw Fed and NERDY afterall. If you have feedback for the group, see the next rule.
You will be banned for breaking this rule- mainly because you broke rule number 1: Do not be a butthead.
ABSOLUTELY NO RECOMMENDING 80/10/10 ALONE: ESPECIALLY PUPPIES
If you continuously recommend 80/10/10 and no nutrient requirements- ESPECIALLY to puppy owners, you will be warned first (new members we recommend to check out the learning units first. Many people have great intentions!)
However, if you continue to neglect the group rules, the next step is being muted and then removed.
There are 38947 different raw groups that can teach you to religiously use ratios. This is not the place and we do not want this content here. Members have expressed this as well. We will be strict on this.
Ratio diets again are welcome if they are accompanied by nutrient audits.
NO POSTING COPYRIGHTED CONTENT- INCLUDING FORMULATIONS BY OTHER PROFESSIONALS
Please do not post copyrighted content. This includes formulations by other professionals. We do not make alternations to recipes completed by other professionals unless explcitely allowed by the nutritionist.
NO KIBBLE BASHING
This is not tolerated. This is a raw focused group and will always remain so- but we also focus on companion animal nutrition. Not everybody is in a position where they can feed raw. Passing judgement on somebody else for what they feed is not tolerated. In addition, science-less claims about kibble are also against the rules. It is okay to talk about fresh food vs. kibble- but only done so in a respectful and scientific manner.
NO COOKED FOOD BASHING
This group 100% supports homemade cooked diets that utilize nutrient guidelines. See FAQ below.
DO POST CORRECTLY
PROVIDE CRITICISM OF THE GROUP TO THE ADMINS FIRST
If you have joined the group and feel the need to complain about this group in other groups- we ask that you complain away- TO THE ADMINS. How else can we make this group and webpage better without your input? It is extraordinarily valuable!
It is a total bummer to see people with critique share in other groups as a complain rather than trying to improve RFN through their experience. Thank you for understanding and making the group a better place.
Credible sources live here. Anecdotal support, even if it means Joe down the street (who happens to know a lot about dogs), is hardly ever appropriate for dietary claims. I am referring to the ever so popular “Well Joe has been raising healthy puppies for 30 years”. I am NOT talking about “I found that my dog stopped eating rocks after incorporating x in to their diet.” That stuff is cool.
THE ADMIN BADGE
The primary role of admins is to keep things under control and on topic. No blocking admins.
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RATIO DIETS, INGREDIENTS, AND NUTRIENT REQUIREMENTS
Nutrient requirements are fulfilled using ingredients.
Ratio diets just use ingredients, but can leave on nutrients.
For example, egg has vitamin D, but feeding an egg twice a week will not meet your dog’s vitamin D nutrient requirements.
WHY DON'T YOU RECOMMEND 80/10/10?
We don’t recommend PMR/BARF/Ratio Diets alone. They can be used as a base- especially if the pet is doing well on it, but we recommend using nutrient requirements in addition. Ratio diets often are easily deficient in many nutreints, yes even with variety and an egg and sardines twice a week.
This is even worse for growth diets. We have seen in the last 6 months (today is August 14, 2018)
Reproductive Distrubances (zinc)
Growth issues (calcium for one, vitamin D for another)
Vitamin E related issues
Manganese Related Issues
Skin Issues (fatty acids)
This page is extremely helpful and discusses PMR diets- where they fall short and how to remedy.
WHY USE NUTRIENT GUIDELINES OVER RATIOS?
WHY USE NUTRIENT REQUIREMENTS- WHY THIS NEW WAY OF RAW FEEDING?
It is NOT a new thing and precedes 80/10/10.
Because it is great to use fresh food! Let’s take it to the next step and make sure the essentials are there, discuss ingredient choice, disucss unique requirements…
JOE DOWN THE STREET- WHO HAPPENS TO KNOW A LOT ABOUT DOGS, HAS BEEN BREEDING HEALTHY PUPPIES FOR 30 YEARS AND HE JUST ADDS FISH AND EGGS 2X A WEEK AND DOES 80/10/10
We are not trying to discredit experience. It is always great that a dog is healthy. But it is not accurate to discredit readily available nutritional information because of Joe. It is far safer to recognize the nutritional needs of your pet rather than adopt somebody else’s. Remember this when you present advice. Joe’s method may have worked for him, but caused reproductive failure in another dog.
WHY THE EFFORT WHEN I DON’T EVEN BALANCE MY OWN DIET?
Dogs and cats live shorter lives and we have less time to get their nutrient intake right.
Also, for the United States- for example, the majority of Americans have a nutritionally responsive condition.
This is a poor comparison.
WHY FEED A RAW (OR FRESH FOOD) DIET?
WHY DO YOU SUPPORT DIETS OTHER THAN RAW?
Raw is not for every pet. We are a nutrition science group- which encompasses more than raw diets. Cooking food does not ruin all nurients- simply use the cooked food nutrient profile. Properly cooked food also has limited bulk and may be useful for pets with disturbances to digestion.
FEEDING WHOLE FRESH FOODS IS WAY BETTER THAN SUPPLEMENTS. WHY ARE YOU PUSHING SUPPLEMENTS
We would rather people feed whole fresh foods! We just prefer people to supplement when it is needed. Read this here.
THIS GROUP ONLY EXISTS TO POINT BUSINESS TO THE ADMINS
WHAT DO I FEED MY PUPPY?
Ratios are not appropriate for puppies. If you are wanting to do DIY but are completely new to formulating with nutrient guidelines, learn how to formulate for adults first before attempting puppies. Links to the free full course and other resources are provided on this page so you can get started. If you have a puppy now, we recommend feeding a commercial food that is formulated using AAFCO or FEDIAF guidelines for all life stages or growth diets- this is important for commercial raw diets as well. Please see the files for a list of foods in the Facebook group.
You can also hire a professional linked in our professional directory under “resources” in the navigation bar on this website. Professionals are not affiliated with RFN.
You can also learn DIY puppy formulation here. Keep in mind that puppy formulation is for those who already have experience formulating for adult dogs.
HOW MUCH FOOD DO I FEED?
To figure that out we would first need to know your pet’s nutrient requirement, and the food’s nutrient content. See HOW DO I START FEEDING X DIET?
HOW DO I START FEEDING X DIET?
Here is the short guide to get you started. You can also look at other more in-depth courses under the courses tab.
WOLVES DO NOT HAVE CALCULATORS
Wolves also die of starvation frequently. Wolves in captivity live longer than in the wild and benefit from modern science. Wolves in the wild do not live as long as dogs.
This is a commonly used “excuse” to avoid nutrient requirements.
We need to be careful to to use fallicious reasoning when approaching science. Appeal to nature is dangerous here.
Also- if one’s philosophy is “dogs don’t do that in the wild,” then we should be consistent with that philosophy. Wolves also don’t get adequate vet care, housing, meals placed in front of them daily, or kefir…or coconut oil..or…raw goats milk…or…
Not to say that studying natural behavior is not useful- we just need to approach the subject with critical thinking.